By John Vochatzer

Pacolli in her studio, T-shirt by Stephan Doitschinoff.

Pacolli!!!!! Pacolli is so fuckin’ cool. Aside from being an amazing artist, super nice person, and president of her own John Waters fan club, a slightly lesser known fact about Pacolli is she has an amazing collection of lowbrow art and memorabilia right here in our very neighborhood, The Tenderloin. I recently had the great pleasure of getting an exclusive tour of this magical little oasis, and in the near hour or so I spent there we apparently only touched the tip of the iceberg in looking through all the cool stuff she has picked up over the years.

Originally hailing from São Paulo, Brazil, Pacolli moved to the Bay Area in 2010 where she’s steadily been carving out quite the name for herself as an artist since. Working in a variety of unique mediums ranging from one-off screen printing, to hand-drawn sticker collages, to her own apparel line “High In The Bay,” she is nothing short of a powerhouse when it comes to knocking out the super dope stuff on the regular. Along her journey as an artist she’s also made no shortage of friends and acquaintances in the art scene, and through a wide variety of trades and other acquisitions has amassed the foundation of what very well may be the coolest private art collection this side of Market Street.

For the second ever edition of our “Collector’s Corner” interview series, I really wanted to feature an artist-as-collector and could think of no better candidate than Pacolli. So many artists that I know seem like they could give a rat’s ass when it comes to collecting art themselves, and this is something I find not only to be a bit odd but even disheartening on some levels. We all know that artists usually aren’t the most well-off members of society, and the “starving artist” trope is a real goddamn thing, but Pacolli more than anyone I know is testament to the fact that you don’t need to be rich to collect art and to have it enrich your life. Thanks again, Pacolli, for taking the time to show me your little personal museum and telling me about all of the art you have and what it means to you. I’m looking forward to round 2 where I get to see the legendary zine and t-shirt collections!

Interview

Hey Pacolli! Thanks for letting me come check out all your cool stuff. I heard somebody say that Pacolli has the best art collection in the Tenderloin. Do you think it’s true? What makes your art collection so great?

Keith Haring photo by Claudio Elizabetski (NYC, 1985). Flower piece by Martha Rich. “Ike and Tina” by Albert Reyes.

Thanks for coming by, I love talking about my art collection, showing it to friends and sharing stories about it. It's a way to not be selfish about the cool art that I see everyday and let others enjoy it too. I don't know if I have the best collection in the TL, it's certainly a treasure in my point of view because it merges with my own life story and I get to be surrounded by inspiring and beautiful creations. I'm sure every collector is in love with their collection.

You told me you started off collecting with a lot of buying prints and doing trades for art in the early 2000s. Can you tell me more about the early days of the Pacolli collection? What has the journey been like since then?

Top right (above the Andy Warhol book) piece by Brad Bailey. Bottom right corner piece by Brazilian artist and friend Jaca

Yes, I started collecting in the early 2000s through Fotolog (before Flickr, Myspace, Instagram) there was this website called Fotolog where you could post 1 photo a day, there were no "likes" and people could only leave up to 10 comments per photo. It was big in Brazil and Europe so I met my first art friends from abroad through Fotolog and had a lot of support from them to keep making my weird drawings. We used to trade art, t-shirts and zines. Lots of friends from France, Belgium and Germany. I actually participated in my first zine and art show because of my Fotolog friends, and we're still friends! I still have all my trades, half of my collection is still in Sao Paulo. This whole thing made me realize I had a sweet collection and it was growing as I was traveling for art shows, buying prints and originals whenever I could. I still get a rush when I put a new piece on my wall. At this point I only wish I had more wall space.

Do you think that collecting art is an art in-and-of itself? And can you tell me about the relationship between the art that you collect, and the art that you make?

I think so, it tells a bit of your history and who you are as a person by the art that surrounds you. It's very personal in my case because I don't collect as an investment, I collect because I love it, something about each piece gives me a particular emotion. I don't care if the value of the piece might increase in a few years, it's not my goal and I hope to never have to sell anything from my collection. Because of the lack of wall space, the art I collect and my own art have to live together, I don't think I would put them together by choice but it makes me happy when my art is surrounded by my friend's art and we're all hanging together on my wall.

The two most prominent people featured in your collection are Daniel Clowes, and of course John Waters. Can you talk a little bit about your appreciation for these two? What are your favorite or most prized items from each of them?

“My Albert Reyes cluster makes me so happy.” -Pacolli

There's a lot of Albert Reyes' art here too! I love his art, I started collecting his prints and then originals. We've been in the same art shows in the past and became friends. I think he's one of the most talented people I know and having his art all over my place enhances my life 10000%. It makes me feel like I made it! I'm so lucky.

I don't have any Dan Clowes’ originals unfortunately, I have a note and postcards he sent me; my friend Chris Diaz asked him to sign them for me and he sent me extra postcards and stickers that are rare, and I put them on the shrine. I have a Dan Clowes/John Waters shrine. Dan is brilliant and one of my favorite artists in the whole world! I go to all his signings just to chat with him and ask silly questions, he's such a cool person. I gave a table at my tiny studio to have his gigantic Studio Edition book always on display and easy to look through it. This book saved me during the Covid isolation years.

Part of the John Waters shrine. Signed photo of Waters and Patricio Bisso, NYC 1985, by Claudio Elizabetski.

John Waters is my hero, since the 90s I've been obsessed with him and I unconsciously collected things here and there throughout the years. I have a photo that my friend Claudio Elizabetski took of John and Patricio Bisso at a party for Fellini's 8 1/2 in NYC, 1985. John signed it for me the first time I met him and I love that photo. I traded it for a sweatshirt! It's the original. I don't think he actually made other copies of it. I share my obsession with JW on my fan page @johnwatersfanclub

You used to participate a lot at Sketch Tuesdays at 111 Minna gallery and collected a lot of art through those events. Can you reflect a little bit on those days and tell me about some of the art and friendships that came out of them?

I started going to Sketch Tuesday's around 2008, before I moved to SF. I've never seen anything like it before, it was well curated and the artists were mostly friendly with each other, it was a very chill environment. We used to get high and draw all night, first sales were always for a beer or two per drawing. I have some sweet art I got from those days, a few Matt Furies, some cool Mats!? drawings, Jason Vivona's art, a couple great drawings by Jake Watling, Bo Heimlich's photo paintings that I love, a Chad Hasegawa bear! I almost got myself a Mike Giant one night, but someone snatched it first. So I went to his studio later that week and bought a nice print from him. I have the best memories from those days! Made great friends, laughed a lot, met people that like my art and we got drunk together, haha. Everyone wanted to smoke us up, it was fun! Shout out to Brad K. Alder!

What’s the last piece of art you collected and can you tell me about what it means to you or what drew you to it?

Top left: Ronnie Spector oil painting portrait by Sanaa Sherezade Khan. Johnny Ryan piece. An older Pacolli piece, and the Albert Reyes cluster.

It was probably a couple of new Albert Reyes around Christmas, I have a cluster of his drawings on my wall, it keeps growing and it makes me so happy. If there's an earthquake and I die in my sleep, I'll be covered in his art. I bought a Johnny Ryan piece during quarantine (before he was banned from Instagram), he posted and I messaged him right away asking if it was for sale and how much it was, I needed to have it! It's perfect! I'm a fan, I've been collecting his work for the past 16 years or so.

If your apartment caught on fire, and you only had time to grab one thing before evacuating, what would it be?

I would just take myself, if I started with ideas of taking this or that I would burn with everything. I'm friends with the Hare Krishnas, I've learned from them that the material world is an illusion. With that being said, my collection gives me a lot of joy, emotional support and it's empowering. During Covid I kept switching art around my place and had great shows here! I like supporting artists and I feel like they support me through my everyday life too.

Why do you think it’s important for people to collect art and to have art in their homes?

Signed photo by Ronnie Spector. A print by Travis Millard. Brad Bailey’s piece.

It's a way of self-knowledge, finding out what you like and creating a bridge between you, your life, the art and the artist. When people come into my studio they always have a surprised look on their faces, like they've never seen anything like this. My plumber told me my place is so different and cool, he wanted to go to art shows after he came here to fix my kitchen sink. I find it weird when people don't have any art on their walls, I don't understand why... your room or home is the best place to explore self-expression, have fun with it!

Can anybody collect art?

Yes, absolutely!

What if you’re broke or you don’t make art to have anything to trade? Do you have any advice for people who want to own art but just don’t know where to begin?

Buy a print! East Bay Print Sale happens once a year and for anyone who doesn't know where to start it's the perfect place. Stinckers have super cool, affordable prints from a bunch of different artists. Travis Millard's Fudge Factory Comics is amazing! Check out Tiny Splendor, they make the coolest Riso prints and they are a good way to start if you are on a budget. Check out Skinner's online store! Follow artists you like and check out their online shops, go to art shows, sometimes at the openings there's a table with other stuff you can buy from the artists like zines, prints or a t-shirt. Buy art at a thrift store! I believe the unspoken rule for trading art is: only ask for a trade if you know for sure the other person loves your work too. If that's the case, ask if they would be down for a trade at that moment, sometimes people have shows coming up or a ton of bills to pay. Don't take it personally if it doesn't happen.

Last question: how does being surrounded by all of this beautiful art that you love make you feel?

It makes me feel like an accomplished curator of my own world, my 12-year-old self would be very proud. Being eccentric is a good thing, I stopped trying to fit in a long time ago. Art is inspiring and when I'm going through a hard time, art can console and comfort me. When I'm super excited and happy, I feel like I'm in the best party I could ever be because all that art makes me smile and it feels amazing. The memories from getting each piece and how they all coexist in this place together is pretty cool, it generates great vibes.