Coming From Reality: A Q&A With Hebert Lucio and D Young V
By John Vochatzer
Our next exhibit at Moth Belly came about rather spontaneously; as our planned line-up for February fell through, I had to find someone to fill the spot on pretty short notice. The first artist that came to mind was Hebert Lucio. I had recently done a studio visit with him and knew he had a large body of work ready to go and he had given me the impression of being a very proactive individual who could get things done on short notice. After a few days of bouncing ideas back and forth and comparing potential other artists, we ended up both agreeing on David Young (D Young V) as the best fit to accompany Hebert’s work in this show.
These two artists, although almost opposites in style and approach, both have recent series’ of work that overlap in the sense that they center around depictions of individuals here in our neighborhood, The Tenderloin. David’s pandemic portraits, of which he’s now created around 200, are all meticulously detailed pen and ink drawings done with micron pens, featuring familiar faces of many locals in the area. Hebert’s recent series “Vida Americana,” likewise features individuals from the neighborhood, but depicted in a much more gestural, minimalistic, and brightly colored fashion. Another point of comparison between the two series is Hebert’s subjects seem to be presented with more anonymity and even abstraction, as compared to David’s much more straightforward and recognizable portraits.
From a more personal standpoint, another interesting aspect to this exhibit for me is the difference in the amount of time I’ve known each artist. Hebert is one of the many new artists of whom I’ve discovered and appreciated their work with the advent of Moth Belly over the past year. David, on the other hand, is one of the people I’ve known longer than anyone else in San Francisco, having had met him in 2004 shortly after moving to San Francisco as an 18 year old kid. It’s gratifying to see these two chapters of my life as an artist converge at my gallery in this neighborhood that I have now called home for half of my life. Prior to the opening, we decided to do a Q&A with both Hebert and David to discuss The Tenderloin, both of their inspirations behind their recent series’, and the concepts and ideas behind the exhibit “Coming From Reality,” opening this Thursday, February 3rd, 2022.
John Vochatzer: Although coming from two very different backgrounds as artists, and working in very different styles, the subject matter you've been focusing on with your recent work is very similar; depictions or portraits of local, usually working class or sometimes even poorer or unhoused individuals from the Tenderloin and elsewhere. Can you both tell me what led you into working on these series and what are the main inspirations behind them?
Hebert Lucio: Sometimes in my work, I’m led by impulse. I think that’s a continual part of the research and development. I find that the work created for “Coming From Reality” really showcases the niche part of the Tenderloin, and any city with a multicultural population. We’re in a place where so many seem disheartened by their own realities, and I strive to showcase that part of humanity within my work. It’s important to recognize where you’ve come from and also how you’ve grown, and to also help further the dialogue of those who didn’t have the opportunity to grow.
D Young V: I began this series just after the first Covid lockdown in 2020. In the past I had done a variety of different projects and styles depicting people and aspects of my community before the start of this series. However, I feel this specific body of work approaches the topic of community in a very literal sense. At first this was a way of depicting the particular pandemic times we live in, most of the people are wearing face masks with inscriptions specific to their lives. I asked each participant to choose and write down words, sentences, symbols, numbers, poems, anything that was significant in their life. I then took what was written and incorporated it into their portrait. This was my way of documenting an individual’s identity in a time where everyone’s face is covered up. An example of this was my friend Brandie Grogan who wrote down her childhood phone number for me to incorporate in her portrait as representation of all her happy memories and experiences as a little girl.
The series soon branched out into documenting as many people as I could. The majority of these people live in The Tenderloin and the surrounding areas (or used to at one point). They are generally people I interact with on a near daily basis. These people come from a variety of different backgrounds, careers and housing situations. Some recently lived in shelters, others in apartments or houses, some are very well-to-do and others are struggling. It’s really a mixed bag of individuals who share both this city and some form of relationship with me in common.
I began drawing the different patrons of Amsterdam Cafe(930 Geary st.) in the early months of Covid. For just over the first year of the pandemic this was literally the only bar open in a five (or more) neighborhood radius. Anybody from the Tenderloin, Nob Hill, Civic Center, SOMA, and all the way to Pacific Heights who had the courage (and need) to go out and socialize migrated here. The bar became the primary community gathering center for much of the downtown area, and often responded to the authorities and city regulations with an anti-authoritarian attitude. If the police showed up and closed the bar down, the owner would wait three hours and open it up again. We’d have after hours movie nights, birthday parties, late night shindigs and small artsy events. It was a mix of locals, artists, drunks and eccentric neighbors.
It was an amazing support system and I’m grateful to have experienced such a bright and inspirational side of humanity.
JV: How have these series fit in with any other series you've each done, and how do they relate to your overall canons of work as artists?
HL: I don’t think I actively know where I’m going when I’m making the work. I just make it and examine the connections afterwards. I find that my work is interconnected based on the different topics and subject matter that fascinates me. Certain themes, ideas and international events I gravitate towards tend to have things in common. Aesthetically, all of my series have a somewhat unified color palette, and all of my work utilizes negative space.
DYV: Throughout the years I have often included aspects of my neighborhood and community in my work. It's my way of documenting my life, the time and culture I live in, as well as the people I surround myself with simultaneously. I believe it's important to incorporate all of these aspects into my work because it provides a sense of gratitude for what I have in this life while providing tribute to the environment and people I live with.
In my life I gain inspiration in most everything I can. Travels, people, experiences, cultures and everyday life are a part of that influence. I've always felt a very deep bond and inspiration from those I interact with on a daily basis both in and outside of the art world. In many ways there is no separation of the two for me.
In the past I gained a tremendous amount of inspiration from my idea of what an apocalypse may be in our society; a restart of civilization. My early years of living in the Tenderloin, mixed with my deep fascination with science fiction combined with my Punk roots allowed for the seeds of inspiration (and social dissent) to grow and evolve. I spent years incorporating my peers and fellow artists into the aesthetic narrative I was creating through my art. The people, circumstances and experiences in my life were mirrored through the story I was presenting in my work for just over a decade as I depicted my own version of a Neo-Renaissance emerging after our society fell apart. It was my way of presenting the hopes, dreams, optimism and creativity I felt in my community through a post-apocalyptic lens. The series itself was entitled 'Live Forever' and existed through a long and detailed process of gallery installations, murals, collaborative and street art projects throughout both San Francisco and the globe from 2008-2015.
It wasn't until the first months of the pandemic in 2020 that I felt the same invigoration as I did with my earlier 'post-apocalyptic' work. Whereas in my past work I had seen the 'apocalypse' as a potentially positive and inspirational thing that had fueled my imagination and bonds to my community, it was still technically hypothetical. The early months of Covid presented something I so desperately wanted this society to experience as a full reality.
The moment London Breed issued a state of emergency on the city of San Francisco, I felt a hope and ambition that I had not known for over a decade. In those moments I felt that this city had finally been saved. It took an event like Covid to do that, but it was a far better option than the earthquake most citizens of SF were openly wishing for. It was from this point that I have spent nearly two years documenting and soaking up as much inspiration as I can from this now changing and uncertain city. Through the Covid experience I now feel closer and more connected to both San Francisco and its people than I have ever felt before. There are certainly ups and downs, but Covid had provided a much needed alternative to social deterioration that existed in years prior to the pandemic due to intensive unchecked capitalism brought on by the city government and the tech industry. I feel my work now is a way of reconnecting to a city that I love in spirit, but has been lost to most of us for so long.
JV: Has the work you've been creating connected you to the communities and the members of the communities you've been depicting, and if so, how?
HL: Sometimes the word “community” is narrowed down to one aspect of our reality, or one interpretation of the word. When I walk around the Tenderloin, it can feel new and exciting, like something I haven’t explored. When I feel comforted by my neighbors, it’s not because they’re my neighbors, but it’s because they remind me of past neighborhoods I’ve lived in, that feeling of familiarity. It’s exciting to open up a dialogue in a neighborhood that isn’t just progressive in ideology but in history, such as the Compton Cafeteria Riots. You don’t just wake up knowing the history of a place. It’s something you learn and have to seek out — the history, the historic grit a neighborhood can hold.
For some, the Tenderloin is just a place for a good pub crawl, but when I walk up the hills I can’t help but think of the different battles that were fought here and the lives that were lived here before it was even California. The Tenderloin is an evolving and changing place, just like any part of San Francisco. It’s very international, it’s home to so many different kinds of people. And I think when we talk about community we have to ask ourselves, who do we consider part of our community? The people who are unhoused, the people at the back of the bar, the people who own the stores, they’re part of the community too.
DYV: For me the work I have been creating definitely connects me to the members of my communities. From the most obvious stand point I am depicting members of my community through my portrait drawings and murals. I have some level of relationship with everyone I've drawn so far. Some people I've met during Covid, others I've known for decades. Some are artists I've worked with over the years, some are artists that are more colleagues I deeply admire but wouldn't yet define as “friends.” Some people I drink with nightly, some I have coffee with in the morning. Some are lovers past and present, some are even women I went on a single date with in which It was such a dope time I had to draw them. Some are family members, others are neighbors. I'm even trying to do a portrait of my mail lady whom I talk with nearly everyday (she's down to model, but super shy; I'll get her in the series eventually).
The relationships I have with those I portray in my work can vary from a single profound moment I've spent with a person to people I have daily interactions with. Some portraits represent years of friendship, and others represent people I've only known for a few weeks. Every person I've drawn has had some level of impact on my life both small and large.
With almost every person I depict I learn something from. Drawing or painting any individual allows me to feel a connection to them in some way. I learn more about the structure of their face, their emotions and expressions. I ask those who model for me to write down words, poems or symbols that are significant to their life in their own handwriting. I often include those characters in their portraits to portray more of their unique identity. When I have the time I interview those who model for me. I ask them questions about their history or specific aspects of their life. I include that information when I post their portrait to social media.
Most recently I am doing a mural depicting my friend David Hall Robertson. He passed away in October of 2021. The mural will be presented at The Amsterdam (930 Geary st.) as part of a memorial being hosted to honor his life, art, and beloved persona in the community. For me it's a way to pay tribute to him and allow his presence to live on for everyone that he shared his life and knowledge with. I'll be mixing some of his ashes in the paint, and his face will be looking down directly at the seat in which he sat at nearly every night as a patron to the bar. The piece is not yet finished, but the reaction has been great so far. I think pieces like this are important. They remind us of who we are, where we are going and the impact we have on those around us. We may leave this world, but the way in which we touch those around us will live on. I want this mural to represent the physical presence of David in a place where he was found nearly every night during the last years of his life. I want those who knew him to feel his presence as they would as if he was sitting there still, and those who didn't know him to to ask "who the fuck is that?" Just as they would if he was there drinking his Stiegl in his very own bar stool.
JV: Let's talk about the title for the exhibit, "Coming From Reality," I believe this was Hebert's suggestion for the title. Can you elaborate on where it comes from and how it ties into the concept of the show?
HL: To put it simply, “Coming From Reality” is the title of one of musical artist Rodriguez’s albums. Though he is from Detroit, his lyrics are like a mirror to life in the Tenderloin. He is an expert at exposing the humanity within people who may not be seen everyday, people who are down on their luck, people who find refuge in the Tenderloin.
DYV: Coming From Reality' is an excellent and extremely accurate title for this show. The title was conceived by Hebert, and I personally couldn't think of a set of words more fitting for this project. For me, the title is literal and straight-forward in regards to the natures of both our work. I believe that the body of art we are both presenting offers no romantic, fantastic or surreal qualities to the individuals we are representing. Though stylistically different, the subjects of our work are real people presented in a way that is accurate and expressive of their personalities and demeanor. I can not fully speak for Hebert, but from what I see in his work there is a connection between artist and model. Just as I have a personal relationship with every person I draw, I believe that a similar dynamic exists for Hebert and his subjects. These are all real people, everyday people translated through the lens of our perception and media of own respective creative filters.
JV: This exhibit came together rather sporadically, and prior to it neither of you knew each other or were very familiar with the other's work. I think this adds another interesting dimension to the exhibit, as you are now both collaborating on both the theme and concept of the show and even on a piece of art to be featured. Can you each tell me how you feel about both the differences and similarities of the other's work and how you think these bodies of work are going interact in the exhibit?
HL: There are so many different people within the Tenderloin community, and so many communities. We both show different people within the Tenderloin from our perspectives, and both use negative space to emphasize the subject of the work.
DYV: This exhibition was definitely a last minute choice, but a very welcomed challenge. Though I believe the choice of Moth Belly to select me for this show was based on the fact that I already had a body of work to show, I feel that my personal challenge was to find a way to present it and fuse it with the vision of an artist previously unfamiliar to me.
I did some research on Hebert as well as a studio visit with him. Conveniently we live only blocks away from each other and have the shared experience of living in the Tenderloin prior to this decision to work together. We had coffee and discussed our art together, it was a very pleasant afternoon.
In short, it seems to me that Hebert gains influence from his time in the Bay Area, as do I. I still gain influence from my experiences as a kid in the NJ/NYC (Lower East Side) punk scene. Hebert appears to do the same from his experiences growing up in Echo Park, Los Angeles. Our childhoods mold us and translate into the decisions and influences we have as adults. As artists we are blessed to have the tools and media to share our visions/experiences with the world. This specific body of work presents people. Hebert's style is very painterly and expressive. There is an explosive (even tribal) element to to the way he presents people. My style is more contained, focused on the facial details, subtle facial movements and the specific personalities of the people I present. Though we are different in media, background, and style, I feel as though our bodies of work speak a very similar message. The choice to put us together was a good decision on behalf of Moth Belly Gallery.
JV: Dave, I know you're planning to do a mural installation to accompany your works. I'm super interested to see what you make. What do each of you envision or hope to achieve with the overall aesthetic and the concept of this exhibit?
HL: I hope to create a space where people feel something. Some people confuse what they’re viewing with what they’ve already experienced, and that can close off conversation altogether. They come to the work with expectations, misconceptions and assumptions based on what they’ve heard from friends or family or the news. I hope that my work invites people to drop those preconceived notions of what they think my work is about, and instead just experience it.
DYV: I'm very into telling a story or presenting a specific theme with any exhibition I do. Though every piece I present stands on its own, the whole of the work paints a bigger picture. When the individual works are presented together they create a much fuller narrative. Incorporating these works into my muraling allows for a far bigger impact on the viewer. Muraling aesthetically connects every single piece together into a single grander presentation, leaving the viewer to appreciate the full capacity of the work as a whole singular piece. From there, each component can be contemplated in singular unique parts. I appreciate the values of individuality, but individuals can go so much further when operating within a tribe.
JV: Have you yourselves been changed or transformed as people or artists in the process of creating these series? If so, how?
HL: I think my work has transformative messages, but I don’t think I’ve been transformed by my work. My work is part of my experience. It’s a form of communication.
DYV: I could write an entire book to provide a proper response to your question, and one day I will. I personally feel changed as an artist and a person. Creating this 'realistic' portrait series is something I had wanted to do prior to Covid but lacked the confidence of my skill set. It took a pandemic and moving back to the TL (just a month prior to SF's city wide shut down) to push my boundaries into this newest version of my style. The bonds I created with new people and ones I strengthened with old neighborhood friends was immense. Having my artistic abilities to express and document the times I shared with these people was pivotal in strengthening my confidence as an artist as well as the connection I felt with my neighborhood and friends. In many ways the pandemic and all those I have shared my time with in this highly unique era has become my muse. I am not the same person I was prior to Covid, nor is the entire city of SF.
A month prior to London Breed's State of Emergency in March of 2020, I was set on throwing in the towel and moving back east. I was entirely over, spiteful and embarrassed of what this city became during its most recent tech boom. There was absolutely no room for growth here for me any longer. As soon as the pandemic hit I decided to wait things out and see what would happen. The changes that Covid brought to SF were incredible. Rents dropped, murals and street art took over the city as all the creatively that seemed to dry up prior to Covid was now flourishing in ways I had not seen for the better part of a decade. The inspiration I felt was immense. The closeness and appreciation I felt towards the people surrounding me intensified and the art pouring through me reinvigorated my spirit. I began to feel like myself again. That change is still growing inside of me everyday...
JV: Lastly, to my understanding (and correct me if I'm wrong) but both these bodies of work are still ongoing for you. Where do you see them going from here? And what's next?
HL: Some of the pieces overlap in subject matter with the series I worked on in 2021, Vida Americana. It’s not an intentional thing. It’s part of the experience of being a painter — you can’t run away from your work. It just continues to create its own universe.
DYV: This series is definitely ongoing for me. I began working on it in April of 2020 and plan to continue it for as long as I need to. My plan is to soon translate my portraits into murals throughout the city. My end goal is to put together a book documenting all the people I've drawn and painted. I'd like it to have a San Francisco based publisher. My intention is to have a large scale gallery installation displaying all of the portraits to coincide with the release of the book. I believe I've done nearly 200 portraits at this time and still have several more to go!
